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End Times Workshop

Cindy Gialluca
Posted at 2:24 AM on October 2, 2009
A few nights ago the group of us began to discuss the possibility of whether or not Obama was the Anti-Christ or just the precursor who sets the stage for the coming evil. It was from this question that this group was born.
God moved among us and said “I task you to take what I have given you in the writings of my books, to study it, compare it to what you are experiencing today, and find the parallels to what I have warned you is coming.”
As he said these words, he chose 12 of us to take upon ourselves this task. He chose people of diverse backgrounds, and differing religious experiences and beliefs, yet brought us together with the goal of taking what he has caused to be written and to apply it to the events we are witnessing, and to make aware those who will listen of the events foretold in his writings.
Do not chain yourself to only the word of the Bible. Remember that the chosen people of God do not use the Christian Bible. Broaden your horizons and look to the Old Testament, and the Torah. Find your answers for your comparisons in the words from before Christ, as well as the words of Christ and his disciples who followed him. God is telling me that the clues to what is to come reside not just in the teachings of the book of Revelation, but also in the pages of the Old Testament and the Torah. He is telling me that we must find the words from all sources and marry them to discover the true meanings, the true warnings, the true story. I am not a biblical scholar, in fact I know little of what the Bible contains, but for some reason, in my heart, I feel certain that this is the way to find the answers.
With this goal in mind, I am moved to propose the first question for discussion.
What are the signals that we have been told will appear before the coming of our Lord, and have we seen any of these signs in our world today? How can we apply what is written, to what we are witnessing currently?
Bret Major
Posted at 12:39 PM on October 2, 2009
Cindy, I look foward to diving into this, as it has been a passion of mine for 20 years or so. It strengthens my faith that I’m seeing the fulfillment of what the Hebrew prophets wrote about long ago.
The answer to the question you asked would fill volumes, and will keep needing to be answered in light of current events and new information.
This group is a great idea, as there is so much I wouldn’t share in a public forum, but might bring up here. The reason for this is because, sometimes people can get freaked out by this type of information and/or speculations, and take it to a level that the Lord doesn’t want us to. That said, I will assume that we’re all mature believers with a strong sense of balance and perspective in these matters.
Finally let’s all agree that this topic has the ability to bring out strong dogmatic opinions, and it would be nice if we would all take a teaching/learning approach, and understand that our salvation does not hinge on what we believe about end times. I look foward to intersting discussions.
Talk to you all later.
Brother Bret
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 2:30 PM on October 2, 2009
Thank you, Cindy. That was well said. However, I do consider the Old Testement…or Torah, The Bible.
Each morning, I have a pot of tea and read my Bible.
Unless I am doing a particular study, I start from Gen. and read a chapter per day.
Interestingly enough…this morning I landed on Luke 21.
There, Jesus is observing the people going into the Temple and giving. He mentions those who make a big deal out of giving and then brings to our attention a poor widow that gives the only thing she has to live on.
A coin worth less than a penny. He is struck by her generosity and says that she has given more than all the others combines.
A story, that most Christians are well familiar with.
But then I carried on to the next verse and Jesus begins to talk about the end times. He says that temple in all it’s splendor will be torn down… and then He begins to speak of how we will know that the end is near.
I had never ever noticed before that he follows the story of the woman giving all…out of her need…
with the teachings of how we will know the end is near.
This morning it occurred to me that He was saying that in the end…money won’t matter. And only those who trust totally in HIM… not in mammon… will survive the endtimes.
If the widow put her last penny in the basket…and that was all she had to live on… what do you think she lived on? She trusted God…to provide for her needs…
and it caught the attention of Jesus, enough that it was included in the Bible, and mentioned just before He begins to teach us on endtimes.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 2:43 PM on October 2, 2009
Jesus begins His teaching here, by saying, basically
“Stuff won’t matter”…
Luke 21:6 “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.”
Then He says…there will be wars… and rumors of wars. And kingdom will rise against kingdom and nation against nation… but the end is not yet.
First you will be persecuted for His Name… ahhhh yes,
for HIS NAME… the name above ALL names…
Jesus…. His name…is as ointment poured forth.
His name is as honey on my lips… His NAME is above every name…named…in heaven, or on earth.
It is always about the NAME of Jesus. You can pray in any other name and say God all day long…and it doesn’t bother people like it does when you say…
Jesus…
That is the name that got Peter and John beaten and thrown into a filthy, stinking, rat infested prison…
and when they were released, that is the name, that the officials warned them not to speak again…
Acts 4:17 “But so that it will not spread any further among the people, let us warn them to speak no longer to any man in this name.”
4:18And when they had summoned them, they commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus
But Peter and John did not listen… they continued to speak the NAME… and we must also…
No matter what.
Our strength and our protection against the wiles of the devil…against every form of tyrrany man can come up with…
Against every evil lie and scheme… is always… in
the NAME of Jesus, and the Power of His Blood…
the overcoming word of our testimony…
remember that Twelve… as we proceed.
The name of Jesus, the Blood of the Lamb and the word of your testimony…
Edited by Kate ♥ Wells, 8 day(s) ago
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 2:48 PM on October 2, 2009
So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;
for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.
But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death,
AND YOU WILL BE HATED BY ALL BECAUSE OF MY NAME…
Yet not a hair of your head will perish.
By your endurance you will gain your lives.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 2:50 PM on October 2, 2009
Just a little information first on where we need to stand and how we will stand
in the end times…
and then Jesus tells us what the first sign will be
He says:
But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near…
Luke 21:20
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 2:54 PM on October 2, 2009
Jesus goes on to tell us that it will be a horrible time for the Jews. He says that some will escape…if they will obey the following passages…
Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written WILL be fulfilled….
But these things cannot be stopped. They were prophesied long ago…and they will happen. They must happen…
Unless…
David Lee
Posted at 3:04 PM on October 2, 2009
Amen Kate! We must continue to speak His name and trust only in Him!
The ends times are something I am fascinated with as well. During some research I posted up a blog here on FT about how the savior of the Muslim people is the same as the antiChrist for us. I should have waited to post my findings because I found that I had reported an error and I have to apologies for that!
When I did my study on the muslim religion a many years ago, I only studied the basic foundation. I didn’t go into complete detail. A few months ago I was reading through some websites and found out A TON of info about who the muslim people are waiting for. Comparing that person to the person we call the antiChrist was insane!!!! But recently I noticed something HUGE that I hadnt seen before and dont understand HOW I could have missed it.
Most of us know the name of the person the Muslim people are waiting for is the 12 Imam but what most people dont know is that this person will be a reincarnate of someone from the past and that the muslim people believe that Jesus Christ will return WITH HIM! He will tell everyone that he was a fake and NOT God’s son. Jesus will act as the false prophet! The person they are waiting for is not the EXACT same person we think is the anitChrist… but our antiChrist will be standing beside their savior!
I just find it so fascinating that the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religions are so inter-connected. Obviously the Jewish and Christian faith are much more closer.
I’d like to ask everyone a question though! As far as the tribulation goes, I’d like to know where everyone stands, because I have never been completely 100% sure. Do you believe in pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation?
Edited by David Lee, 8 day(s) ago
David Lee
Posted at 3:05 PM on October 2, 2009
I say bring on the hate!!!!!
PRAISE JESUS!!!!
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:11 PM on October 2, 2009
Unless…unless…
…someone can prevent the wrath of God…
For it is written in throughout the book of Isaiah…that God’s wrath will be poured out on His people…
Read Isaiah… read how angry God became with the people… His people… His beloved children… who were so rebellious… read Jeremiah…and see how they continued in the rebellion no matter how many warnings they got from the prophets..until God says to Jeremiah.. “Take this cup of the wine of wrath from My hand…and cause all the nations to whom I send you, to drink it. And they SHALL drink…and stagger and go mad because of the sword that I will send among them …
and God continues to speak to Jeremiah…
“And you shall say to them “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, ‘Drink, be drunk, vomit, fall, and rise no more…because of the sword which I will send among you…
And it will be, if they refuse to drink, then you will say to them, ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts…”you SHALL
surely drink!”
Jeremiah wept…
How could he deliver such a word to Israel?
He wept…
would nothing stop the wrath of God? How could it?
How could it be stopped…when God, Himself had said
they….surely…SHALL…drink …of the cup… of
His wrath…
But come with me now to the future… come with me…
now to see… what was to become of the prophesy…
Edited by Kate ♥ Wells, 8 day(s) ago
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:16 PM on October 2, 2009
Come with me…to the garden of Gethsemane and behold…. Jesus….kneel before His Father as he lifts up the cup…
the cup?
the cup of God’s wrath??
And so pained he was at what was coming, that He was sweating great drops of Blood…as he lifted up the cup…
and said the words, “Father, if Thou art willing, remove theis cup from Me…yet…not My will…
but Thine…be done…”
And Jesus drank of the cup of God’s wrath…
the cup that was to be ours…
and praise be to His name…
we do not have to partake of the wrath of God that is
to come… but it is still to come…
to those whose lives are not hidden away in
Jesus Christ.
Edited by Kate ♥ Wells, 8 day(s) ago
Cindy Gialluca
Posted at 3:23 PM on October 2, 2009
First, when I made the statement that we should also look to the Old Testament as well as the Torah (which I believe are one and the same but never having looked truely at a Torah I dont know this for certain), I did not intend to say they were not part of the Bible. What I meant to say is that many, and I am sure that most in this group do not fall into this category but many outside this group do, only look to Revelations for their information concerning the end times.
Ok now that I have clarified, let us look at some of what Kate has said.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:26 PM on October 2, 2009
I thought it fitting to look at a little of the history of the endtimes…of why… there is going to be an “endtimes” before we delve into it.
Be blessed and grateful for the salvation that was bought for you…in the garden… and at the cross…
when He could have called ten thousand angels to his side…
angels…each one so strong only one can slay thousands…and Jesus could have called a legion of them to help Him… but He did not…
He loved you so…
that He could not…
for He would have lost you forever to satan…to hell…
and so He hung there until He gave up His spirit…
but that was not the end yet… no…
So much did He love you…
that He then descended into hell to take the devil on
face to face…
to contront him on his own territory and demand…
the keys to death…and hades…
the keys…
that He would hand to you…
and say “behold, I have given you the keys to the kingdom…
Oh, how He loves you and me
oh, how He loves you and me
He gave His life
what more could He give…?
Oh how He loves you
Oh how He loves me
Oh how He loves you and me…
Cindy Gialluca
Posted at 3:31 PM on October 2, 2009
First, Let us look at the persecution for saying His name or referring to God. I submit to you that currently people of faith are persecuted by way of ridicule. That even mentioning the word God, or the Word of God has become fodder for those that would ridicule and belittle us. This is always the first step in persecution. First you are ridiculed, then you are reviled, Then your beliefs are removed or replaced in things that were meant to glorify God and Jesus, then you are told it is illegal, then you are jailed, and eventually you are put to death.
As we see today governments have moved to remove God from our schools, our court houses, and even attempts have been made to remove it from our pledge, our money and our motto. Recently songs that were written about Jesus and God have been bastardized replacing Jesus and God with Obama. Jesus Loves Me, and the Battle Hymn of the Republic are blaring examples of this. The attempts to remove God from the pledge of Allegiance. The list goes on.
Additionally it has for some time now become popular to use the word God in vain. From Rev. Write’s “God Damn America” to people saying things like “Jesus Christ, are you some kind of idiot?”. I too have been guilty of these things. However one must consider that invoking these words as the preamble to ridicule, or angry retort cheapens them. Gives them less impact, creates a situation where it is easy to dismiss them. It is because of this, that the moves to persecution for belief in them are spawned.
So let us look at ways that mentioning God or Jesus has become avenues for persecution. What things that we see today could be seen as persecution?
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:36 PM on October 2, 2009
Luke and I receive a monthly magazine called “Voice of the Martyrs”… it’s free if anyone has the nerve to subscribe to it.
It is filled with stories of how Christians are being martyred around the world…today… even as I write these words.
People are being tortured, and killed…and horrible things done to them and their families in front in them, just for love Jesus. Just for being Christian.
You won’t read about it in the paper, or see it on CNN.
You won’t even see it on Fox
But it is happening daily.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:37 PM on October 2, 2009
Here is the website
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:39 PM on October 2, 2009
We have not experienced true persecution in the United States. But it is coming…if we do not overtake this current regime…and that really depends on if we have time before the Lord’s return.
Cindy Gialluca
Posted at 3:41 PM on October 2, 2009
So what are we seeing in the US that could be the seeds of persecution?
David Lee
Posted at 3:43 PM on October 2, 2009
Kate that was amazing! I loved how you brought it all together. And I hope there is more!
Cindy, I dont really feel that we are being persicuted badly right now. When you mention to people you believe in Jesus most people will debate with you or tell you they dont but no one is trying to lock you up, throw things at you or kill you. Atleast not here in America.
It happens ALL OVER the rest of the world though!
David Lee
Posted at 3:44 PM on October 2, 2009
You ladies are much faster typers than myself lol
Edited by David Lee, 8 day(s) ago
Cindy Gialluca
Posted at 3:53 PM on October 2, 2009
Would you not agree that ridicule or belittlement is its own form of persecution? Granted we are not being thrown to the Lions… yet.. unlike what Christians and Jews have to deal with in places like Iran.
So what were the precursors to persecution in those areas in which believers are being truely persecuted?
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:58 PM on October 2, 2009
lol…yep… I had no idea when I dropped Spanish in highschool for typing…how it would pay off! There was no such thing as computers yet never mind texting!
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:58 PM on October 2, 2009
Ridicule and belittlement is a form of persecution. It is meant to deter and intimidate people from speaking of their faith
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 3:59 PM on October 2, 2009
If you can’t get past that…you don’t have a chance to stand up against beheadings and mutilation of loved ones in front of you..
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 4:02 PM on October 2, 2009
Americans are still living under the blessings from our ancesters who were faithful to God’s word…
we have no idea in this country what real persecution is like…
I was in Romania after the dictatorship fell and even tho it had been 9 months…the people still were meeting in secret and when we went to the church that we were to preach at…we had to meet on a street corner and be taken to a country road and dropped off and picked up by someone else and did that several times before we could actually go to the church. So afraid were they of the politze following us… these people had just seen churches bulldozed while people were inside praying and worshipping God. They died like that…with their little ones next to them…
Cindy Gialluca
Posted at 4:05 PM on October 2, 2009
I agree, but the point I am trying to make is these smaller forms of persecutions lead to larger ones. So saying if we are seeing the smaller, lets call it the “seed” form of persecution, then what is next and how does it go from “seed” to germination, to sprout to bush to tree, if you get my drift, and what do we look for when it begins to make that transition?
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 4:06 PM on October 2, 2009
Americans have forgotten the how much power there is in God’s word…in prayer… in worship…
they have not been opposed here and so they have become lazy and take for granted how awesome it is to have churches in abundance and Christian bookstores on every street corner…filled with the knowledge of God’s word…
I have seen grown men cry whne handed a Bible…
because they never ever expected to own a whole Bible… where they lived… each person was given a portion of the Bible…because if one of them was caught…they would be killed of course…and the Bible destroyed… so they could not risk one person having the whole Bible.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 4:10 PM on October 2, 2009
By letting evil get a foothold…by not resisting the devil.
Everywhere…not just church… movies, books, conversation…and government.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 4:12 PM on October 2, 2009
satan hates God. It has been so from the beginning.
The people who came to this nation to begin it in the first place, did so because they were being persecuted where they lived. They left everything they knew as comfort and home…and “modern” conveniences…to come to land that was unknown and filled with danger…just so they could be free to worship God. This is the great tragedy of the evil twisitng of our constitution to exclude God.
Cindy Gialluca
Posted at 4:24 PM on October 2, 2009
Lets get specific.
What acts of government are being used to remove God from it?
What movies? books? And what criteria are we using to make these observations?
I know, I am being irritating, but my job as God has told me, is to question, to represent the one easily led astray. To be the reader who does not have the foundation who comes across our newsletter, reads it and asks, How do you know this is happening?
A.J. Of Hashem Teaching Redemption To Heaven
Posted at 7:37 PM on October 2, 2009
My turn to share knowledge gleaned from the word through the Holy Spirit,,,,Ruach HaKodesh …When we use the name of Jesus Christ
we are saying Jesus (of Nazerith) the anointed one. Yesheua Ha Masheah is the meshiah. Jehovah is said to be the Father God, although some argue that it too refers to Jesus.
When we pray, Jesus said to ask anything of the Father “in my name” which realy means in the power and Rightiousness that that Jesus has allowed us to use through the power of the blood “for with the sheding of blood there can be no forgiveness” we can ask of God to grant us requests, and He will see us as the “Rightiousness Of Christ” covering our sins with the Blood Sacriface of Yeshaua.
This post has been deleted.
Mateniya A.k.a. Jeff Ben David
Posted at 1:59 AM on October 3, 2009
Hey Kate,
Yes my people have a record. The Bible shows we learn, we stray, we are punished, we learn, we stray we are punished and the prophesies from Jeremiah are more of the same.
That is why Torah Jews are careful to keep the 613 commandments, but we still slip. The problem as I see it is primarily the many Jews who are not Torah Observant. I try and be my brothers keeper, but they do not all listen. As it is prophesied, it does not change my Love of Hashem, but it is not easy being a Jew.
Fortunately, G_d has made a promise to the Jewish people that we will be an “eternal nation” (Leviticus 26:44)
In all history, exiles of an entire people out of their country have been very rare. Multiple exiles are unheard of, since, after the first one, the people generally disappear — they simply become assimilated among other peoples. An interesting fact, in all human history, multiple exiles / dispersions are unique only to the Jewish people.And yet us Jews survive anyhow, certainly it is because God made us an “eternal nation”
When Messiach comes (returns) you can be sure all of the faithful Christians and Torah Jews will be at peace as there will be no longer any difference in beliefs and the remaining Torah Jews will go to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple. Hopefully very soon.
Bret Major
Posted at 9:32 AM on October 3, 2009
The gifts and calling of G-d are irrevocable!
You’re right Jeff, the history of your people is not just amazing, but supernatural. And like you aluded to, not one that is always flattering. To me the history of the Jews is a picture of how G-d always deals with those who are called according to His purpose. He calls them, they draw close, they get drawn away by other desires, G-d calls them back to fellowship, they become restored…then the whole process starts over. Jeremiah 2. This is the process of my life.
For me, I’m in awe of how G-d has worked through the Jews to accomplish His purpose, which is still going on, and am grateful I am one of those ‘grafted into the original olive tree (Israel)’, as Paul said. Romans 11.
You’re right Jeff, we can be sure that all those found in G-d at the coming of Messiah will be as one. I know someday you and yours will be filled with overwhelming joy that people from every nation, tribe and tounge were blessed and restored unto G-d through Israel’s Messiah.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 11:10 AM on October 3, 2009
One year I studied the Jewish festivals and observances. It occured to me then that the Jews as a nation, diligent to keep their festivals and observances are a “walking, living, Bible”…that others can see, and read if they but look. This is why satan hates them so much. They are a walking prophesy of his doom, and of God’s enduring love and deliverance.
The Bible says that Christians are “spiritual Israel”. We are Jews by the grafting in and by adoption, through the Blood of Yeshua. Abraham is our Father.
Romans 9:4,54″…who are (Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises”
Ezekiel 37 speaks of the joining of the two covenants when we will be as one people…Jews and Christians.
It is the chapter about the dry bones and the Lord bringing them back to life. They will rise again as one powerful and mighty body.
The two “sticks” referred to…with Judah, and Israel written upon them…in a new covenant…a covenant of peace…which God calls an EVERLASTING covenant, …when placed together, for a cross.
Study Ez. 37 and you will see the joining of our faiths in one covenant… It is powerful!
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 11:14 AM on October 3, 2009
“On your walls, O Jerusalem, I have appointed watchmen; (intercessors)
All day and all night they will never keep silent. (they are always praying for the peace of Jerusalem)
You who remind the LORD, take no rest for yourselves: ( constantly pray)
And give Him no rest until He established and makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth…” Is. 62:6,7
The Christian church is commanded to always pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
Edited by Kate ♥ Wells, 7 day(s) ago
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 11:16 AM on October 3, 2009
This is a website, which is really only a brief page that explains very well what I have spoken in the above passages…
I pray you will take time to read it…
It’s called “Awakening The Bride”
Lesli Olney
Posted at 2:32 PM on October 5, 2009
Hey Yall… I posted this on a blog.. but I also wanted to post it here for my “family”… This is Rick Joyners weekly newsletter.. very good!!! Love you guys!! Enjoy..
Discerning the Times, Part 51
Week 41, 2009
One of the most quoted lines Charles Dickens wrote has to be: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” That could certainly be attributed to the challenges of Christianity in America right now, but I would rephrase it a bit to the following: “The worst of times will lead to the best of times.” We can be confident that the Lord is going to lead us into His triumph in everything that happens. However, we need to know where we are to know how to get where we’re going. Let’s briefly review how this is playing out in our country at this time. I think those reading this from other countries can apply the same principles.
The economic shaking that began over a year ago rocked just about every church and ministry in America. Many had to close their doors as contributions plummeted. Instead of closing, others joined with additional churches and ministries in order to survive, which can result in a great strengthening of both. If we do not come into the unity God desires voluntarily, He will often cause situations that force us to. As He put it, we can either fall on the rock and be broken or have it fall on us and crush us into powder. There is an easy way, but if we don’t respond to it, for our sakes, He will force the conditions. We see this throughout Scripture.
The result of this economic shaking has brought a soberness and wisdom in financial matters, a resolve to reduce and eventually eliminate debt. The cutting back of extravagant expenditures is helping churches and ministries lay a stronger foundation financially than many have ever had. This battle with economic issues is far from over, but if we are diligent, the body of Christ can be free from many of the most debilitating shackles soon.
Financial independence should be the condition that we all live in as Christians. This does not necessarily mean that we all should be wealthy, since this has nothing to do with how much we have, but instead it is about our freedom. One who is financially independent should never have to make a decision based on whether they have enough money, but rather on whether it is God’s will. This should be our primary financial goal as Christians, and many are making it theirs now. This will be increasingly critical in the days to come.
The economic shaking that came upon the world last year and the continuing tremors are like the shaking that God sent upon Egypt to set His people free. All of the gods of Egypt were judged, which is what God is doing now—judging all of the gods of this world. A god is not just an idol that you bow down to, but it is anything that we put our trust in instead of God. Money is the number one idol of the human heart in our times—even among many Christians. The faster we quit worshiping that god, the sooner the shaking may be over. Money is not evil, but can be if we use it incorrectly. Money must be our servant, not our god.
Hopefully, Christians have also become wise enough not to be lulled into believing that all is well now that it seems the economic downturn has leveled out and the stock market has come back like it has. As I shared months ago, we can expect this to happen, and this is a reprieve from the Lord to help many of us get our houses in order. Do not waste this time. It will not last long. And do not be lulled into thinking that everything is going to return to how it was before the shaking. The whole world’s economy is still tottering on the edge of an even bigger meltdown regardless of what the “experts” and pundits say.
This plateau could last for a year or so, but the fundamentals of the economy are as shaky as ever, and there is even a fast return to some of the major mistakes, which caused the catastrophe we experienced in 2008, such as a renewal of sub-prime lending. The proverb that “those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it” definitely applies here. Even so, it is hard to imagine that anyone could forget such a painful recent history so fast, but this is happening, revealing the depth of the delusion. We must not fall to this delusion ourselves.
With each week that goes by, we have increasing evidence that the present Administration does not actually understand the economy or business, and continues to implement policies and make statements that are severely damaging to the long-term recovery prospects of the economy. The alternative is that if they do understand the economy, and are implementing the policies that they are, then they are purposely trying to destroy our economy and our national strength. I personally do not believe this. However, I confess there is quite a bit of evidence that seems to indicate they know what they’re doing. I think there is still room to give them the benefit of the doubt. Regardless, the results are going to be devastating if the policies are not radically changed soon.
As we have briefly discussed, the American economy is built on many factors, but the growth engine, especially in relation to jobs, is primarily small business. Almost everyone agrees that jobs are the basic economic engine and stimulus, and that small business provides between 70–80 percent of all new jobs created, yet the Obama stimulus plan did not have one cent or one policy incentive for small business. Instead, it has demonstrated a very cold attitude toward business in general, not to mention the promise that the more successful you are, the bigger the target you will be for the government to take your winnings with increased taxes.
This comes when the corporate rate of taxes is already the second highest in the world. With the proposed Democratic health care bill, America would be the highest business taxing country in the world to business. Not only that, the extra burden of the health care costs, which would have to be borne by businesses, would cause many to either lay off workers or even shut down. The chill that this will put on new startups will be devastating as well.
To continue to compete in the world market, many American companies had no choice but to seek cheaper labor and move factories overseas. Instead of the Administration offering incentives to bring these jobs back to America, it issued a threat of taxing them more for doing it. Now many of these businesses have no choice but to consider moving their headquarters overseas as well, as many are doing. Just a year ago, what was the greatest market in the world has become one of the most hostile for businesses.
Many nations would love to have these businesses and are willing to give them huge incentives to relocate. Given the choice of these incentives, or an interventionist government that is hostile toward businesses and watching the fast nationalization of the banks and large industries, which is the first step for a socialist takeover, many of these businesses are leaving, and many more are planning to follow.
We may think they could not possibly leave the biggest market in the world, but that market is changing. Things have become so twisted now that you can receive more favorable treatment as a foreign business than a domestic one. However, another major long-term factor makes long-term economic strengthening nearly impossible, which we must understand.
We have been approaching 50 percent of the population being either employed by government or living on entitlements. Government does not produce anything marketable, so this percentage of the population must be supported by the 50 percent who are producing something marketable. No nation has survived long with this high of a ratio. It simply is not sustainable. This ratio is getting much worse in the U.S. as government growth has exploded under the new Administration and all of their basic economic strategies call for more government growth. Even more people who do not pay taxes will be paid by those who are productive and pay taxes. Those who understand know that we are at the breaking point, and an implosion is inevitable.
If the government health care plan is implemented, the percentage of Americans who are employed or supported by the government will actually approach 60 percent, which will have to be supported by the productivity of the remaining 40 percent. Health care, presently one of our major exports and 15 percent of our economy, will instantly be taken off of the exports list since we will almost certainly have to go to rationing even to take care of our own citizens—because we will be adding an estimated 20-40 million people to the system.
This is untenable and cannot possibly be sustained. So why do we have the bounce that we are experiencing now in the economy? Our economy is very resilient, and Americans tend to be very optimistic. However, extreme and unrealistic expectations tend to become extreme overreactions when the real conditions become clear. The next jolt could send the stock market down to the 3,000–4,000 range and unemployment soaring even higher.
At the very time that our most basic liberties are under assault, the foundations of our economic strength are under the worst threat possibly in our history. Even so, if the American people wake up to what is happening and respond quickly enough as it seems they are beginning to do, we can come out of this stronger as a nation and as Christians. It will take proactive determination and resolve, but that is what the Lord is seeking to raise in His people. Embrace this great opportunity.
Mateniya A.k.a. Jeff Ben David
Posted at 5:33 PM on October 5, 2009
Hi Kate,
Some beautiful insights, while I will not comment on Romans NT, with regards to Ezekiel 37, your vision I believe is true.
Mateniya A.k.a. Jeff Ben David
Posted at 5:52 PM on October 5, 2009
Hi Lesli,
You this absolutely correct. Great summary on what is happening.
Please allow me to share a possible scenario , after the unemployment rises above 14%, so does civil unrest, then marshal law will be imposed. That will be the excuse to confiscate arms, limit free speech in many forms, label Christianity and Judaism as belief systems that teach hate and that their places of worship are where the rebellions are organized.
That will be the start of the end of days.
Our Govt will inoculate their armies and loyalist against small pox, (They already do) and then small pox will be released in the air by crop dusters, human movement will do the rest. The populations in the central, southern, and rural areas will suffer the greatest losses. Federal black boot types will offer health care as a way of entering areas that they had previously lost control of during marshal law. The pox will spread globally as the inoculations required to prevent infection will seem to only make it to the elite and those they deem needed.
Then many Messiach “types” will appear, only one will be real.
Hope I did not scare you, you should be scared already.
Time to praise the Lord.
Lesli Olney
Posted at 6:13 PM on October 5, 2009
Holy Cow… that is quite the scenario.. I haven’t heard it put that way…. about the small pox thing.. but I knew the other would happen and that marshal law would be forced… etc. Very scary. Hal Lindsay has always said that it is coming in the name of “Security”.. all of our security devices are going to end up being Big Brother.. and used for evil in the end.
Thanks for sharing Jeff!!
And Praise the Lord.. Glory to the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob..
Bret Major
Posted at 8:05 PM on October 5, 2009
Amen to that!
And, speaking of Hal Lindsey…his weekly analysis of current events is always insightful and concise.
Kate ♥ Wells
Posted at 9:37 PM on October 5, 2009
Luk 21:28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”
===
Cyneca
Member
Posts: 19
Join date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: End Times Workshop Sun 11 Oct – 7:32
I am going to preface this by saying these are not my words. I came across this on another forum and because we are discussing this subject I thought I would copy it here for us to look at and discuss. There are some interesting coincidences in this I have to say.
———————————–
13 Considerations
1. Charismatic Speaker Worshipped By The Masses. The Book of Daniel says the Beast will arise in a country made up of “diverse” people from “all kingdoms” [which could describe the USA]. The Beast “shall speak great words …and think to change times and laws.” The Beast will have “understanding [of] dark sentences,” “shall magnify himself in his heart,” and will talk of peace “and by peace shall destroy many.” Daniel 7:23-25; 8:23-25. The worldwide masses will worship the charismatic Beast/Antichrist who will have a “mouth speaking great things.” Revelation 13:3-8. [sic]
2. False Prophets. The advent of the Antichrist will be heralded by false prophets. Jeremiah Wright and Father Pfleger, who claim to be in the prophetic tradition, compared Barack to Jesus. Louis Farrakhan called Barack “the Messiah” to whom the youth will listen.
3. Treated As A Religious Figure. The Bible says the Beast will substitute himself in place of God and Jesus. Oprah Winfrey called Barack “The One” who will help us evolve. Chris Matthews blasphemed that Obama “is writing the New Testament.” Newsweek and Rolling Stone both added halo effects to their Obama magazine covers.
4. 666. Revelation 13:18 says “the number of the Beast … is the number of a man and his number is six hundred threescore and six.” 6+6+6=18, the number of letters in Barack Hussein Obama, whose Chicago power base includes the 60606 zip code.
On November 5 — the day after the election — in Obama’s home state of Illinois — the evening pick 3 lottery number was 6-6-6.
.
5. What Jesus Saw. In Luke 10:18, Jesus is quoted as saying: “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”
“Barak” is the Hebrew word for “lightning.”
So Jesus said he saw Satan as barak.
“Bama” is the Biblical Hebrew word for a “high place” such as heaven.
6. Beast Is A Hybrid From The Sea. The symbolic Beast of Revelation 13:1-2 will “rise up out of the sea” and is a hybrid of different species with “the mouth of a lion.”
Barack is a Leo with great speaking abilities. He is part black and part white and has both Muslim and Christian heritage. He was born in the middle of the Pacific Ocean on the island of Oahu, surrounded by the sea.
7. The Burak In The Koran. The rider on a white horse in Revelation 6:2 is the horseman of the apocalypse considered to be the Antichrist. His “crown … given unto him” and bow without arrows signify he will be freely chosen by the people without violence.
Barack’s connection to a religious white horse: In the Koran, the buraq or burak was a magical white horse that Mohammed flew upon at night from Mecca to Jerusalem, where it was tethered to the Western Wall (called Al-Buraq in Arabic). When Barack went to Jerusalem in July 2008, he paid a night visit to Al-Buraq (the Western Wall).
8. Evil Goat Connection. Throughout the Bible, sheep are associated with good and goats are associated with evil, which is why Satan is often depicted with goat horns. In Matthew 25:31-41, Jesus says that upon his return, he will separate the good sheep on his right from the evil goats on his left and shall cast the goats “into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.”
Barack is the lefthanded son of a Muslim goatherder.
In Kenya, Barack’s election was celebrated by the slaughter of goats.
.
9. Nostradamus’s Mabus Prophecy. Nostradamus’s first antichrist Napaulon Ray turned out to be Napoleon, and his second antichrist Hister turned out to be Hitler. The third and final antichrist in Nostradamus’s prophecy is associated with someone named Mabus, whose death will trigger massive calamity. (Century 2, Quatrain 62.)
The only prominent person ever named Mabus is Ray Mabus, the former Governor of Mississippi and Bill Clinton’s ambassador to Saudi Arabia. Ray Mabus is a Middle East policy adviser to Barack and campaigned for him. If Barack sends Ray Mabus on a mission to Iran where Mabus is killed and Barack retaliates, the Mabus prophecy will be fulfilled.
10. Unstoppable Rise To Power. Barack’s meteoric rise to power out of nowhere has been unstoppable. He overcame problems in his background that would have sunk an ordinary candidate. Barack steamrolled over the Clinton machine, with the Democratic super delegates and mainstream media unable to resist his spell. Hurricane Gustav delayed the start of the Republican convention. Just after McCain pulled ahead in the polls, Wall Street suddenly collapsed to ensure Barack’s election.
11. Satanic Palindrome. Sasha is only the nickname of Obama’s oldest daughter. Her legal name is NATASHA — the reverse of AH SATAN.
12. 2012. According to Revelation 13:5, the Beast/Antichrist will rule for 42 months of relative peace and prosperity before all hell starts to break loose in the middle of the fourth year of his reign, culminating in the Battle of Armageddon.
The fourth year of Barack’s presidency will be 2012, the year the Mayan calendar comes to an end, the year of a rare planetary alignment, and a year that scholars say Nostradamus foresaw as tumultuous.
13. Shiite Islamic Prophecy Of “A Tall Black Man” Running The West. According to a 17th Century prophetic text of the Shiite branch of Islam, the return of the Mahdi, the Islamic messiah, in the End of Times will be preceded by “a tall black man” running “government in the West” and commanding “the strongest army on earth.” The black “promised warrior” will carry a “clear sign” from Hussein ibn Ali (the third imam) and will assist the Mahdi in converting the world to Islam. The Iranian media have identified Obama as the “promised warrior.”
A.J.G.
Member
Posts: 45
Join date: 2009-10-08
Age: 60
Location: Nancy, outside Somerset-Lake Cumberland, Kentucky
Subject: Re: End Times Workshop Sun 11 Oct – 10:17
VERY DISTURBING
we debunked some of this stuff, but it still is disturbing. when will we ever know the truth?
it seams we are chacing our tails on this subject.
Cyneca
Member
Posts: 19
Join date: 2009-10-08
Subject: Re: End Times Workshop Sun 11 Oct – 19:02
I suggest that we take a week for each of these 13 things and study them. Find the things that both would appear to support and the things that refute these claims. Discuss them fully, and then come to a conclusion based upon wht the Bible tells us and what we research and discover.
This is the kind of thing that once we come to our conclusions on each section and a general overall conclusion, that we should share with the general public, and post over in FT to allow comment.
I will start a new thread, post what I have above in it and then begin the discussion of the firs consideration by posting it on its own.
I will apologize in advance that next week (17th – 26th) I will be out of touch as I will be on a cruise ship somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico for most of the week. I will return on tuesday the 27th.
Shelley
Admin
Posts: 53
Join date: 2009-10-06
Age: 55
Location: Vermont
Subject: Re: End Times Workshop Tue 10 Nov – 18:27
Jeff said
“Our Govt will inoculate their armies and loyalist against small pox, (They already do) and then small pox will be released in the air by crop dusters, human movement will do the rest. The populations in the central, southern, and rural areas will suffer the greatest losses. Federal black boot types will offer health care as a way of entering areas that they had previously lost control of during marshal law. The pox will spread globally as the inoculations required to prevent infection will seem to only make it to the elite and those they deem needed. ”
Small pox released in the air by crop dusters does NOT sound far fetched . Has any one ever seen what they call Chem Trails ? It is quite scary . I have photos that I took a few years ago of some over Ludlow . A LOT of jets were flying back and forth and crisscrossing each other . They left a trail behind them that took a long time to disappear . I was really struck by them because we do not usually have jets flying over . There are no major airports here .
I honestly think that last summer after they flew over our house that there was a white gel around the yard . I honestly am not crazy
A.J.G.
Member
Posts: 45
Join date: 2009-10-08
Age: 60
Location: Nancy, outside Somerset-Lake Cumberland, Kentucky
Subject: Re: End Times Workshop Tue 10 Nov – 19:40
I am old enough to have been vacinated for smallpox so I should have some protection
Shelley
Admin
Posts: 53
Join date: 2009-10-06
Age: 55
Location: Vermont
Subject: Re: End Times Workshop Tue 10 Nov – 20:23
I’m really not as worried about smallpox . I know they do have live virus in storage somewhere though . I’m more worried about something they MAKE . Not sure what they could come up with , but watch the movie “Outbreak” , it will get you thinking .
A.J.G.
Member
Posts: 45
Join date: 2009-10-08
Age: 60
Location: Nancy, outside Somerset-Lake Cumberland, Kentucky
Subject: Re: End Times Workshop Wed 11 Nov – 16:04
A.J. Of Hashem wrote:
I am old enough to have been vacinated for smallpox so I should have some protection………. we never know what is possible… they talk about everything from genetic engeniered viruses to allian reversed engineered weapons etc. we never know!